Looks Like It's Romney vs Obama

[wheelspinner]

With Rick Santorum's withdrawal from the primary race, it looks like the Presidential election will come down to Obama vs Romney.

In a way, this is a surprising outcome. The US polity seems to have taken a lurch to the right over the last few years. Yet the next election will be a runoff between a "socialist" candidate whose main backers seem to be Goldman Sachs, and a "conservative" whose political record includes introducing State-funded health care. Either one of the candidates would seem to be quite comfortable as a representative of the opposing party. The extremists on both sides are going to be forced to make a centrist choice.

Of course Mitt Romney has done his damnedest to convince us all of his far-right credentials and the GOP has potentially shot itself in the foot by savaging him for being an investment banker (they are after all, supposed to be supporters of the free market). But he will have to run on his record in the end, which is going to be that of a slightly right-of-centre politiician who could govern a liberal State like MA without frightening the horses. That's not going to appeal to the Tea Party, Libertarians and Evangelicals who want to drag the GOP further right.

But Obama will not appeal to these people either. If anything, their over-riding concern is to kick him out of office.

In a country where voting is optional it's much harder to predict outcomes, especially so far out. It's eminently possible that the right-wingers will express their disappointment in Romney by staying home on Election Day. In my view, however, I think it's more likely that their antipathy towards Obama will override those concerns; Romney wil get their vote on the basis that at least he is not Obama. The alternative for the Tea Party would be to facilitate Obama's re-election by not getting behind their candidate. I can't see that happening.

What I can see happening is the many people whose high expectations of Obama have been dashed by his pragmatism and cosying up to a fanatical opposition will look elsewhere. Many of these will stay home, drastically reducing Obama's support compared to 2008, when he hadn't managed to disappoint anyone. Quite a few other Obama supporters may look at Romney's record and figure that he is not that right-wing and may be able to manage Congress better than a hamstrung Obama.

The end result could be a collapse in Obama's support, with the GOP coalescing behind Romney as the lesser (for them) of two evils. They may have got there by a torturous and wrong-headed process, but I think they will end up with a candidate who will give Obama the fright of his life. Right now, I'm tipping President Mitt.

[joethree56]

You could be right, But as you point out, it will be which candidate can get out the vote who will likely pick the curtains for the oval office. The trouble with politics in hard economic times is that it forces reality on the electorate and coming to grips with this is a very steep learning curve so President Mitt would be as bigger disappointment to his supporters as Obama seems to be to his.
It seems to me and I would guess also to you that as voters steeped in a parliamentary system we are quick to see the fault lines in the US system that the 'locals' do not.

[patchoulli]

Some of us are thinking this might be the 'year of the woman'. While Obama is not living up to what we lefties thought he was going to be/do he certainly has not pissed off the better half of the nation like the right has. Even some of my "rightie tightie" female friends are aghast at what the right is up to regarding womens' issues. It's like watching our very own Taliban taking shape.
I'm purposely not thinking too much about the election, but some of it can't help but filter in, and if I had to choose a winner today I would bet on Obama because I just saw in the news that he has more campaign dollars than Mitt right now. 'Course the Koch brothers haven't weighed in heavily yet so that could definitely change things quickly. More of us here now understand how much money has to do with our elections and that the guy with the most bucks wins.
If it comes to pass that Romney wins I think it will be an extremely interesting and scary time for the US. It will mean almost certain class and probably race warfare, and if they start proceedings to privatize Social Security and other sacred programs we can probably count on older folks starting their own uprising.
I'm wondering what is really going on in our politics. We are still sparring over stupid stuff like gay marriage and gun control laws and there hasn't been a real left in decades. In my own warped gray matter I believe it all comes down to oil and most of us anywhere on the planet don't have a clue as to just how much oil (and water, too) is affecting our lives.

[joethree56]

P. I hope you are right on the issue of women's perceptions of the US political situation as it would represent real progress towards a sort of compassionate conservatism that would address some of the social ills without scaring the pants off the individualists (I very much doubt that European/Australasian social democratic ideals could thrive in the USA). The bottom line is about oil but in a very complex way. Really the issue for most folk is their perception of the world pecking order and their rank within it. I am very much reminded of the UK in the 1970s when having lost the biggest empire the world had ever known we were forced by circumstances to accept reality. The process was long and painful and possibly still ongoing. No doubt the USA will feel the pain just as keenly.

[patchoulli]

You're exactly right about oil being a very complex bottom line. And the "pecking order" theory is correct. But we are just now really beginning to understand what the rest of the world has lived with for so long - that oil affects us in our daily lives. For several years I have been looked at like I'm crazy or one of "them thar socialists" because every time someone would gripe about the price of gasoline I would tell them that we are just catching up to the rest of the world.
We are going through another up/down price change and it will end with gas at about $5.00 per gallon where it will rest for a spell while we all get used to it. Just today at the grocery I heard the cashier tell the lady behind me that the milk was 30 cents more and the lady started spouting off about the price of gas is affecting everything. She didn't look like a lefty. Of course if I had asked her why the gas is so high she would have probably told me it's all Obama's fault.
We are going through what you went through in the '70s and how shortsighted of us to not have learned from you. Some people think things will go back to what they were before but many are now beginning to see that things are going to get a lot worse before they level out. We are feeling the pain.
There are some of us, I'm one, who think this will be good for us. We've been so materialistic and so driven by consumerism that there is almost none of the real stuff left. We don't take care of our poor people, our infrastructure, our education of kids, and we certainly don't make health care something all can afford.
Believe it or not, the "European/Austalian social democratic ideals" you mention are beginning to take hold here. The young kids are where it's happening. I really think the Occupy movement has opened some eyes. This election will tell us if there's a chance for America to move forward or if we're going to go back to the bad old days. If Obama wins we'll stay the course just slightly right of center. But if Mitt wins we're in deep, deep shit.

[Brian]

Romney has absolutely no chance at all. None.

[wheelspinner]

Apr 28, 2012 13:38:51 GMT -5 Brian said:

Romney has absolutely no chance at all. None.

What makes you say that? Rasmussen has them in a virtual tie at this stage (47-45) and a lot more can go wrong for the President than for the challenger between now and November. I am convinced that the far right's antipathy towards Obama will ensure that the GOP gets out the vote; I don't see Obama's supporters from 2008 to be anywhere near as rusted on to him.

[rubytuesday]

So it's tweedledumb or tweedledumber, both servants of AIPAC, the best democracy money can buy.
What ever happened to all the hype about Ron Paul?

[wheelspinner]

Jun 21, 2012 9:39:08 GMT -5 rubytuesday said:

So it's tweedledumb or tweedledumber, both servants of AIPAC, the best democracy money can buy.
What ever happened to all the hype about Ron Paul?

I don't think that Ron Paul actually won any of the primaries did he?

I suspect that people inclined to Paul's philosophy have already skipped a generation. They might be more inclined to vote for his son than for Ron, albeit a few years down the track.

[guest]

Jun 21, 2012 9:39:08 GMT -5 rubytuesday said:

So it's tweedledumb or tweedledumber, both servants of AIPAC, the best democracy money can buy.
What ever happened to all the hype about Ron Paul?

I can't resist commenting on this.

Yes, these are two people, both with a similar past. Both have a bent for big government, gun control, and socialized medicine. Romney is pro-war, and Obama is pro-war in his actions. There is little difference between the two.

Some difference, yes, but not enough to matter. Country is going down the toilet and the only difference is one wants to paddle counter clockwise and the other one wants to paddle clockwise.

As I'm sure you're aware, Romney has picked Ryan as his running mate. Ryan is seen as a conservative, but he's just as big government as anyone- voted for the stimulus, for example. Liberals says he's gutting the budget, and some conservatives are falling for it. All he's proposing to do is cut budget growth to about 3% form about 4% a year- in cuts over ten years' time. Not to shrink the budget or even balance it, but just to curb the rate of growth.

The reason Ron Paul was out of the race is because the press largely ignored him. This was right from the start. He was nearly tied with Romney in the popular vote at the Iowa Caucus, and won 23 of the 28 delegates, but the press declared it was a Romney and Santorum race. I saw more news about Gingrich than Paul. Paul won 3 states.

[rubytuesday]

I find it amazing that in a nation with over 300 million inhabitants the best candidates for the US Presidency are either Obama or Romney. Both have the same ruthless and disregard for International Law, the US Constitution itself and devotion to Apartheid.
In fact over the last 50 years the only US presidents I've had any respect for were Kennedy & Carter, both refused to accept Israeli shekel as a valid form of payment. Kennedy of course was murdered and Carter is generally ridiculed in the Zionist owned media.
Apart from those two we've had a succession of Tweedledumbs and Tweedledumbers, the Bushes, Clinton made the USA the best democracy in the world which money can buy.

The latest nut job on the scene is a Paul Ryan , a running mate for Romney. Now Ryan is so far off the scale he thinks the UK's National health Service "Interferes with democracy" and should not be copied. This is the potential Vice President of a country where people literally die in the streets because they can't afford health care, the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the USA and Ryan apparently thinks that's democracy.

He's pro-gun, anti-abortion, hates the NHS, hunts deer and catches catfish with his bare hands: The brains behind Presidential candidate Mitt Romney

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... nd-1266989

Keep-fit fanatic Paul Ryan hopes to smarm his way into the US public’s ­affection as Republican candidate Romney’s running mate

When Paul Ryan left school, his classmates voted him their “biggest brown noser”.

Now the deer-hunting keep-fit fanatic hopes to smarm his way into the US public’s ­affection as Republican presidential ­candidate Mitt Romney’s running mate.

And the would-be vice president intends to do it by reining in public spending and slashing medical benefits for the old and needy.

On the way he’s already ­infuriated Brits by ­criticising the NHS.

Claiming “socialised ­healthcare” jeopardises tax cuts, he said: “The NHS interferes with democracy and the US must beware following Britain’s path.”

When mega-rich Romney announced his choice a week ago, he introduced Ryan as “the next president of the United States”.

The crowd tittered but the gaffe may well prove to be true.

If President Barack Obama is re-elected in November as expected, Ryan should be the Republican front-runner in the 2016 race for the White House.

And unlike Sarah Palin, the Tea Party supporter who helped derail John McCain’s bid four years ago, pundits say Ryan does have a shot at the White House.

The driven political insider is seen as bringing a bit of intellectual backbone to the ticket.

The 42-year-old father-of-three has spent his entire career in politics and is known as a ­ferocious budget axe-wielder.

The Wisconsin ­congressman’s favourite hobby-horse is Medicaid, the government agency that helps pensioners with medical bills.

He wants to slash government spending to reduce the deficit and free up private enterprise.


Pro-gun lobby: Ryan goes out hunting
Facebook


Yet he conveniently failed to remember that he’d applied for some of President Obama’s government stimulus money.

After denying the ­accusations twice, he admitted “forgetting” that his office had sent letters, some signed by him, to the Energy and Labour departments seeking aid for two Wisconsin firms.

But he has faultless right-wing credentials.

His Irish great, great, great grandfather arrived in the US during the potato famine and worked on the Boston railroads before saving enough to buy a small Wisconsin farm.

As a devout Catholic, Ryan is fiercely pro-life, describing himself as an “ardent, unwavering foe of abortion rights.”

He doesn’t agree with gay rights either – he votes against same-sex marriage and opposed the repeal of the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy, which allowed gays who kept quiet to stay in the forces.

He also backs the pro-gun lobby and has argued against tougher background checks for owners.

The obsessive fitness freak has little time for the unhealthy – and is a devout follower of hardcore home work-out system P90X.

The trim 6ft 2in Ryan got into keep-fit when he was 16 and discovered his 47-year-old dad Tobin dead of a heart attack.

He is so well know for it that web spoofers have put his head on “ripped” muscular bodies.

His daily regime takes in cross-country runs, super-strength cardio exercises, pull-ups, push-ups, karate and yoga.

Asked once if he had any vices, he said: “I drink two cups of coffee every morning.”


PAUL RYAN PHOTOSHOPED INTERNET PICTURE - COPYRIGHT UNKNOWN
Unknown


At weekends in Janesville, Wisconsin he goes on cross-country skis, clambers up mountains and shoots deer and turkey with bows, arrows and rifles.

He spends his downtime in the Colorado Rockies, where he has made 40 ascents up the “Fourteeners”, peaks of over 14,000ft.

He catches catfish with his bare hands and even proposed to tax attorney wife Janna, 43, at his favourite angling spot.

The couple married in 2002 and live in a grand six-bedroom house with their three children, Liza, 10, Charlie, 8, and Sam, 7.

He has 67 cousins, all living within a few minutes walk.

Many work for Ryan Inc, the earth-moving business founded by his Irish great grandfather.

Ryan has never bought a ­Washington bolt-hole. He often sleeps on his office sofa or drives to his sister-in-law’s house in the suburbs to use her spare room.

He is an avid reader of Ayn Rand novels, beloved of American opponents of “big government”.

He says her books inspired him to run for public office.

As a student he did internships at the Senate. He paid his bills working as a waiter at a Mexican restaurant, a fast food salesman and personal trainer to political aides.

He listens to Beethoven and Led Zeppelin as he works out.

Until recently, he was also a fan of Rage Against the Machine. But the left-wing rockers were aghast.

Their guitarist Tom Morello said: “He is the ­embodiment of the machine our music rages against.”

[wheelspinner]

It always seems to me that middle class Americans who vote for the likes of Romney and Ryan are like turkeys voting for Christmas.

[guest]

"It always seems to me that middle class Americans who vote for the likes of Romney and Ryan are like turkeys voting for Christmas."

You think Obama is better.

[patchoulli]

"You think Obama is better."

You don't?

[wheelspinner]

Aug 23, 2012 21:00:19 GMT -5 guest said:

"It always seems to me that middle class Americans who vote for the likes of Romney and Ryan are like turkeys voting for Christmas."

You think Obama is better.

An unqualfied Yes. Obama's flagship policy was to improve the health of all Americans. Romney and Ryan's is for gutting the public service to the point of complete breakdown, and transferring wealth from middle to wealthy America. Like I said, turkeys voting for Christmas, unless you are already in the top 1%.

[MacBeth]

I sit and shake my head as the broadcasts all praise Ryan for not being as bad a speechmaker has he usually is - and calling that a major success.
It was pretty much what I excepted, but I really thought he would be a better speaker than he is. And when he tried to get personal, it was so forced that I almost felt sorry for him.
Then I remembered his policies and that passed quickly

[dee]

I truly don't think Romney has a chance of winning this election but if the election gets stolen again, which it has in the past and Romney is given the White House people can look to many changes in their tax returns and not for the best, people can look for funds for public education to be done away with, for vouchers instead of Medicare and you are on your own otherwise in just about everything else. What a danger he is to common sense and to our country.

[MacBeth]

I did not believe Bush could win either - and I will never be certain again about elections.
But I am certain that a Romney Presidency will not end America as we know it but it will push that reality further toward happening.

[wheelspinner]

Very surprised at Obama's poor showing in the first debate.

Romney gifted him with a major attack point with his stupid remarks about the 47%, and Obama should have honed in on them like a laser and used them to clean his clock. Similarly, he should have taken every opportunity to highlight Romney's starl contrasts between what he says he will do, and what he did do as a Governor (a la Jon Stewart's legendary "debate" between President Bush and Governor Bush). Finally, in the context of soft USA employment, Obama should have hammered that Romney's claims to being a superior economic manager are predicated in his running of Bain, where his business model relied on him putting thousands of Americans out of work so he could line his pockets.

Instead we got an insipid performance. Are we looking at a second John Kerry?

[wheelspinner]

Interesting some of the late-breaking endorements we are seeing. Both Michael Bloomberg and (sort of) Chris Christie have backed Obama in recent days. The Economist has also backed Obama.

The aftermath of Sandy has enabled Obama to display his credentials as President, in a much more convincing fashion than Bush immediately after Katrina. This should win him support, and also maybe make people reluctant to change government at this time.

I'm starting to think that Obama has done enough to win now.

[wayneinfl]

Well, Obama won.

And what the hell, I'm back.

[Peltigera]

The thing that amazes me is the length of the process - eight months for this thread. We get done and dusted in eight weeks or less.

I think most of us world-wide were pleased to see Obama re-elected. He, at least, seems to know where the real world is kept even though he is far too right wing for my taste.

And welcome back, Wayne.

[wayneinfl]

Thanks.

Looking at what the two have done I was really on the fence on this one. Really not a whole lot of difference between Romnobama and Obamney. I thought with Obama, we'd lose some rights, but he would at least protect 4th Amendment rights. Obama wasn't much better than the Republicans in that regard. Just beat up the middle class a little more on taxes.