New Car - Opinions Welcome

[wheelspinner]

It's almost six years since I bought a car, and am bewlldered by the range on offer. I don't keep up with cars much, so I don't have a great feel for what's out there. It doesn't help that we were in the USA for 3 years, losing all touch with the model range changes in the locla Aussie market.

Basically we are looking at a mid-size sedan with enough grunt to handle long (300km) drives in the Australian countryside. We are going to use our Honda Jazz as a runabout, and want something a bit bigger, more powerful, able to handle rougher roads etc.

In our disorganised way we have been looking at:

Volkswagen Jetta. Don't like the Made in Mexico factor, and the attendant reliability problems
Volkswagen Golf GTI. Not a sedan, but looks great in all other areas. We'll probably test drive this one
Audi A4. The last Audi I owned was in 1985, so I really know nothing about these. Doing a test drive today.
Alfa 159. I know even less about this. We'll go look at one and probably hate it on sight.
Honda Civic. We've owned a few Hondas and they've always been good. We've had a couple of Accords, but they've become bloated large cars not worth owning. The new Civic is the size of our old Accords, so it might fit the bill.
Mazda 3 series. Don't really know anything about these, but they are wildly popular here, so it's worth a look.

We're ruling out Nissan, Toyota and all Koreans because of safety and reliability issues. Suzuki because of their boy-racer image issues. Aussie makers Ford and Holden (aka GM) are beyond the pale; we won't even consider the crap they produce.

The wife hates BMWs and Mercs, and that's that.

Cars with potential that we know nothing about: Citroen, Peugeot, Renault, Saab, Skoda, Volvo.

Or, Plan B, struggle on with the Honda Jazz for another year.

Your opinions, informed or otherwise, are very welcome. Feel free to poke fun out our choices and enlighten us. (Bear in mind that Antipodeans are not blessed with the largesse shown to our Northern friends when it comes to choice of make and model).

[wheelspinner]

Eliminated the Alfa 159 amd the Ctiroen C5 today. The former is a bit cramped in the driver's seat and the latter too heavy and thirsty.

Looked at Peugeot 407 and 308, was not impressed with either.

Test drove an Auid A4. Really nice car, but big sticker shock. I would have to negotiate hard. Also drove a Honda Civic. As good as Honda always is, but this one was a bit boring and felt a little rough next to the Audi. We can probably afford a better car than that one.

As I thought, there is a whirlwind of choice out there; it is way too confusing.

[qhperson]

What about a 4-wheel-drive Subaru? They're very popular in the snow&mountain areas of the US, like Colorado.
I suggest going to cars.com (where the CarTalk site is) and checking their reviews.

[qhperson]

www.cars.com/go/crp/index.jsp?aff=cartalk

[Georgina]

It is way too confusing. There is too much information and too many choices to try and compare. Car shopping is one of the most complicated decisions we make. (Assuming one doesn't say, "Oooo what a pretty colour. I'll take *that* one.")

I would imagine, too, that the cars available in Australia are different from the ones available in North America. Just as the cars on the other side of the pond are different. Even when they are the same make and model as in North America, a Ford in the UK is a whole different car.

Do you have any images, WS of what you've narrowed down to? And what are your needs, exactly? For example, if I lived in a larger city and in the heart of it, I'd likely either not own a car at all or I'd own something really small for ease of getting around. And then I'd rent something bigger if I needed to travel. Living where I live, summers are fine for a car, but winters are far safer in a four-wheel-drive of some sort and therefore a minimum small SUV. It's overkill for summer, but I'm only one person and not about to own two cars, one for summer and one for winter.

So, what sorts of needs do you have for a vehicle, WS?

[wheelspinner]

May 29, 2010 11:55:20 GMT -5 Georgina said:

It is way too confusing. There is too much information and too many choices to try and compare. Car shopping is one of the most complicated decisions we make. (Assuming one doesn't say, "Oooo what a pretty colour. I'll take *that* one.")

That was my exact thought when we looked at the Alfa 159. I'd never seen a white Alfa before and it looked stone gorgeous. It wasn't until we tried out the driver's seat that we realised this car is totally designed around driving it quick, with lots of manual gear changes, made for windy roads, that sort of thing. All the cabin ergonomics point to that, and it's just not our style of driving or our conditions. That and I wasn't going to fork out 50 grand for a car with a tacky plastic interior.

I would imagine, too, that the cars available in Australia are different from the ones available in North America. Just as the cars on the other side of the pond are different. Even when they are the same make and model as in North America, a Ford in the UK is a whole different car.

Correct. From the reviews I read and my experience in the USA, it is clear that many cars are specced differently there vs here. A lot of that will have to do with our being RHD; makers are only going to manufacture a limited set of RHD vehicles from their full range. Our local conditions also mandate different suspension settings and options lists, etc.

Do you have any images, WS of what you've narrowed down to? And what are your needs, exactly? For example, if I lived in a larger city and in the heart of it, I'd likely either not own a car at all or I'd own something really small for ease of getting around. And then I'd rent something bigger if I needed to travel. Living where I live, summers are fine for a car, but winters are far safer in a four-wheel-drive of some sort and therefore a minimum small SUV. It's overkill for summer, but I'm only one person and not about to own two cars, one for summer and one for winter.

So, what sorts of needs do you have for a vehicle, WS?

We have a Honda Jazz, which is going to be our urban runabout for shopping, short trips and Liam's car. However it is just not suited to highway driving. It can't get up hills when laden, has zip torque, no cruise control, limited back seat room, half-size spare tyre and you can't mount a bike rack on it. Since we regularly take trips of 300km or more, this has always been an issue.

For our new car, we want something that will cover those weaknesses. A sedan (probably) set up for long trips, good economy, roomy inside, big boot, more powerful engine. The modern cars we are looking at are all downsizing there engines and many are going to diesel. The most common cc is a 1.8, whereas last time around the midsize sedans were all 2 litres.

Beth is short, so we can't go for anything too long. We've ruled out cars like the Ford Falcon and Volkswagen Passat because she can't see the end of the bonnet from the driver's seat. Hence we are looking at mid-size cars.

Here are some images of what we have been looking at:

Alfa 159


Audi A4


Volkswagen Golf


Honda Civic


Mazda 6


So far the Audi is the pick, but it's way the most expensive. The Golf or Mazda could still knock it off on value grounds. We might also look at the Honda Accord and one or two others, but the field is narrowing quick.

If I was a young single man with no need for practicality, I'd probably already own that white Alfa.

[wheelspinner]

May 29, 2010 8:38:49 GMT -5 qhperson said:

www.cars.com/go/crp/index.jsp?aff=cartalk

Thanks qh, that looks like a good site. I'll browse through it this week.

I did note that there are some key difference with Australia, which you'd expect. For example, the A4 only comes as a 2.0 in USA, but I can get their 1.8 version here, which is cheaper.

They Kelly Blue Book references will be very handy, though.

[Georgina]

Friends of mine have had all kinds of luck and good experiences with Mazdas. Audis are almost always a certain bet for torque and acceleration. In terms of driving experience, I'd go with the Audi first, although, yeah, pricey.

No small SUVs in your sights? I'm truly a fan of those.

[wheelspinner]

May 30, 2010 11:40:02 GMT -5 Georgina said:

Friends of mine have had all kinds of luck and good experiences with Mazdas. Audis are almost always a certain bet for torque and acceleration. In terms of driving experience, I'd go with the Audi first, although, yeah, pricey.

No small SUVs in your sights? I'm truly a fan of those.

The wife doesn't want an SUV. I'd be OK with it, maybe, but I didn't really like the Trailblazer we had in the USA.

[Georgina]

The Trailblazer was a full-sized SUV thing, though. I'm talking about Jeep Liberty, Ford Escape, Audi Q5, Subaru Forester, like that. They're nowhere near as cumbersome as the full-sized monsters with all kinds of pep, power, and space, while minding fuel and all of that.

[qhperson]

The Subaru Forester gets high marks, from what I've heard. Wouldn't trust a Jeep, personally.
The smaller Toyota Highlander is also supposed to be good.

[MacBeth]

I have been reading this with interest, but not commenting as I have so little knowledge of cars that I am totally useless (in this, and many other topics).

I am comfortable in my vans, and they make grocery, plant and furniture shopping much easier. Since I got the 'stow and go; seats in the last one a couple of years back, I am good to go myself. With the removable seats, I needed Richard's help (learned that one the hard way). When it comes to many things, once I find something I am comfortable with, I stick with it until they make so many design changes that I am no longer comfortable with it. I do dislike the new designs that make it look more SUV-like, that blunt nose and square back area. But i plan on driving this one until it won't drive anymore - just like the last one. Love those years with no payments !

[Georgina]

May 30, 2010 22:49:17 GMT -5 qhperson said:

The Subaru Forester gets high marks, from what I've heard. Wouldn't trust a Jeep, personally.
The smaller Toyota Highlander is also supposed to be good.

This is a pretty spiffy article/list about small SUVs.

autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1361/the-worst-small-suv-money-pits/

They give all of the truly great features about the small-sized SUVs, such as economic on fuel, great handling built on manageable-sized car platforms but with far more interior space for peoples and stuff.

While they rate the Jeep Liberty (in this article) lowest for long-time ownership costs, they rate the Jeep Patriot highest. I'm more than pleased with my Liberty. It'll stay with me until it falls apart for certain.

[wheelspinner]

I read the article. The GMs aren't available here. I wouldn't touch a Mitsubishi or a Kia with a barge pole. The latter for safety reasons and the former because there is real doubt about their future here.

We are going to a Honda dealer this weekend. Might look at the CRV and a Forester while we're out and about.

Lusting after the Audi right now. Beth still hasn't come around yet, so we could end up with something else.

[MacBeth]

Not sure how this translates to your area, but I did stumble accidentally on to this piece from Forbes:

10 Most Overpriced 2010 Cars: autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1451/most-overpriced-2010-cars/

[Georgina]

Jun 1, 2010 8:14:50 GMT -5 wheelspinner said:

I read the article. The GMs aren't available here. I wouldn't touch a Mitsubishi or a Kia with a barge pole. The latter for safety reasons and the former because there is real doubt about their future here.

We are going to a Honda dealer this weekend. Might look at the CRV and a Forester while we're out and about.

Lusting after the Audi right now. Beth still hasn't come around yet, so we could end up with something else.

WS, yes, we talked up-thread about how vehicles -- even by the same manufacturers -- are different where you are than they are here, so I expected the specific ones in the article wouldn't help a whole bunch. I posted that article because I thought it did a nice job of explaining the benefits of the smaller SUVs because you'd expressed dissatisfaction with a full-sized one.

I can see how you'd lust after that Audi, though. Very nice.

[Georgina]

Oh, and yes, Beth, mini-vans are fantastic. I owned one the very first year they were introduced in '84. Having to remove the rear seats and store them someplace was a huge pain, though. And the four cylinder engines they first came with did not have anywhere near enough juice. But I loved them madly.

I recently rented one for my parents when they were visiting, and the stow-and-go back seats were fantastic. They are a really nice vehicle, easy to get in and out of, and practical for so many things.

[MacBeth]

And the space comes in pretty handy when 4 dogs are going to the vet or the boarding center ;D

[wheelspinner]

Jun 1, 2010 15:47:23 GMT -5 MacBeth said:

And the space comes in pretty handy when 4 dogs are going to the vet or the boarding center ;D

Not a dog person, as you know.

Beth has actually driven a CR-V a couple of times when she was given one as a courtesy car while the Jazz was being serviced. She hated it. We won't be getting an SUV of any description.

[Georgina]

Ah, I see. Okay. Hated is pretty strong.

[wheelspinner]

Jun 2, 2010 8:43:39 GMT -5 Georgina said:

Ah, I see. Okay. Hated is pretty strong.

Yeah, not sure why. I wasn't with her when she drove them. But I am quoting her directly - she won't have a bar of an SUV.

My brother has a Subaru, and he's quite happy with it.

We will look at the Golf and the Mazda3 this weekend. After that we'll decide on whether and, if so, which one.

Then I just have to plan how to pay for it:

[wheelspinner]

Found out why Beth didn't like the CR-V. She found it too hard to climb into, and she also felt out-of-control in the driving position. Not really surprising after driving a compact hatchback around for years.

Did some more test driving yesterday. Good weather for it - it was raining (yay) intermittently, so there was a good chance to see how the cars behaved on slick roads.

First up was the Volkswagen GTI. This car is a beast, and the most fun of any car I've test driven since I took a Honda Integra out on the I5 in San Diego and let it rip. IT accelerates like made and the engine is deceptive; once I got up to 110kmh just on the freeway entrance ramp, where I'd struggle to get up to 80 in my car. There were downsides. The brakes are super-grabby, designed to stop the car at 300kmh on the autobahn. This makes them very hard to control in city driving. The merest touch feels like you've floored the brake pedal, and there is little nuance. The sports seating is firm and we thought the back seats would be bum-numbers on the 5 hour trip to my MIL's. It's obvious that it's a fantastic car, but it's just not our sort of car.

We also agreed that a Golf is just another hatch, only about a foot longer than the Jazz. Better engine and dynamics, but it's still the same sort of car, covering needs we already have pretty well covered.

We then went to another Audi dealer and took a look at their A3. This is smaller thatn the A4 (which Beth likes) but likes a bit weird close up. I thought it was a hatch, but it looks more like someone tried to cross a hatchback with a station wagon and missed the mark both ways. I climbed into the back and found that my head was jammed up against the roof - it has a sunroof in the back seat. I'm not a tall man at all, so we ruled that out right away.

Which left us standing next to another A4. We went for a second test drive to see if our first impressions were borne out. We did notice some things that we missed the first time. Some of the controls are a bit fiddly, and the seats have a hard plastic backing that Beth banged her knee on getting out of the car. (My wife was nicknamed "Queen Elizabeth" by her friends in her youth - she can get pretty picky). On the other hand, it handled the wet just fine and, when I drove it along one of the crappier roads in our area, it soaked up bumps and potholes very nicely.

So we even got as far as talking price. Being June, we got a very good offer. (Which is why we're in the market). Beth has pretty much settled on the A4 as pick #1, and I can see myself driving it for years. We are now analysing the cash flow to see how we would finance it. If the budget allows, we will pull the trigger, I think.

[Georgina]

It must feel good to narrow down the choices. I hate trying to sort through every little detail of complex purchases. But I'd much rather wade through them than make an impulse purchase.

I'm guessing, then, WS that your wife is a fairly small woman? If so, then I can see how any sort of vehicle larger than a car would feel overwhelming.

So, but, good for you! I hope you're happy with your decision.

[wheelspinner]

Jun 6, 2010 11:28:15 GMT -5 Georgina said:

It must feel good to narrow down the choices. I hate trying to sort through every little detail of complex purchases. But I'd much rather wade through them than make an impulse purchase.

I'm guessing, then, WS that your wife is a fairly small woman? If so, then I can see how any sort of vehicle larger than a car would feel overwhelming.

So, but, good for you! I hope you're happy with your decision.

Yeah Beth is pretty short.

Decision is made and the car has been flagged for us by the dealer. I just need to get the finance organised, which will take a bit of doing yet.

[wheelspinner]

It's the Audi. Contracts signed and deposit paid. We should take delivery in a couple of weeks. (It's in Queensland right now, so I suppose it's in no hurry to come down to a chilly Melbourne winter).

I'll post some photos when it arrives.

[Georgina]

Woot! Yay for decisions! I'm looking forward to seeing pictures. Congrats.

[Calluna]

Congrats! Audis are very nice.

A Subaru also would have been a good choice. I've had an Impreza for several years now and just love it. It isn't too big (especially in an American car market), has all wheel drive, which is AMAZING for handling the curvy, steep mountain roads here in winter (my former car, a Ford Focus, was a great city commuting car, but completely underpowered for mountain roads, especially when there was snow on them). By the time I was buying my car, Subaru was also getting the styling right, and their cars no longer had that ugly, boxy, overly-functional look to them. Of course, with the road conditions around here in winter, every other car on the road is a Subaru. I didn't want to have to get an SUV and compromise so much fuel mileage. Both Audi's and Subaru's are good on fuel. Audi's are just out of my price range, as much as I like them.

The ONLY thing I wish I could swap between my Subaru and my old Focus is the fold-down rear seat. The Impreza only has a fold down middle arm rest sized section of the back seat into the trunk. My Focus used to have the entire back seat able to fold down to make more cargo room. Every so often, as I'm buying stuff to fix up my house, I miss having that extra room from folding down the seats.

[wheelspinner]

We tried out an Impreza when we looked at our last car in 2004.

A Subaru dealer was one of the first we looked at this time around, but there wasn't an Impreza to be seen. They have just released a new mid-size model here, and almost all the space was given over to it. There was one or two WRXs, and the rest was 4WDs and their sub-compact.