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Post by MacBeth on Jan 27, 2009 6:48:58 GMT -5
BAY CITY, Mich. – A 93-year-old man froze to death inside his home just days after the municipal power company restricted his use of electricity because of unpaid bills, officials said. Marvin E. Schur died "a slow, painful death," said Kanu Virani, Oakland County's deputy chief medical examiner, who performed the autopsy. Neighbors discovered Schur's body on Jan. 17. They said the indoor temperature was below 32 degrees at the time, The Bay City Times reported Monday. "Hypothermia shuts the whole system down, slowly," Virani said. "It's not easy to die from hypothermia without first realizing your fingers and toes feel like they're burning." Schur owed Bay City Electric Light & Power more than $1,000 in unpaid electric bills, Bay City Manager Robert Belleman told The Associated Press on Monday. A city utility worker had installed a "limiter" device to restrict the use of electricity at Schur's home on Jan. 13, Belleman said. The device limits power reaching a home and blows out like a fuse if consumption rises past a set level. Power is not restored until the device is reset. The limiter was tripped sometime between the time of installation and the discovery of Schur's body, Belleman said. He didn't know if anyone had made personal contact with Schur to explain how the device works. Schur's body was discovered by neighbor George Pauwels Jr. "His furnace was not running, the insides of his windows were full of ice the morning we found him," Pauwels told the newspaper. Belleman said city workers keep the limiter on houses for 10 days, then shut off power entirely if the homeowner hasn't paid utility bills or arranged to do so. He said Bay City Electric Light & Power's policies will be reviewed, but he didn't believe the city did anything wrong. "I've said this before and some of my colleagues have said this: Neighbors need to keep an eye on neighbors," Belleman said. "When they think there's something wrong, they should contact the appropriate agency or city department." Schur had no children and his wife had died several years ago. Bay City is on Saginaw Bay, just north of the city of Saginaw in central Michigan. ___ Information from: The Bay City Times, www.mlive.com/bay-citynews.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090126/ap_on_re_us/frozen_indoors
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Calluna
Super Duper Member
I think there's someone on the other side...
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Post by Calluna on Jan 27, 2009 7:25:56 GMT -5
I thought there were laws that kept utilities from shutting off service in the middle of winter, to prevent just this sort of thing? And, I also thought there were assistance programs for people who can't afford their bills? The furnace fan runs on electric, even if you have gas heat. Did they even check that he had a way to call if there was a problem? If he's that far in debt on the electric bill, it's likely his phone had been turned off long ago as well, so he would have had no way to call the electric company about a problem.
I also think it's horrible that they can look at an incident like this and claim there's nothing wrong with their policies and shift the blame to neighbors! Their policies shouldn't depend on neighbors to notice something is wrong in the dead of winter when they very well might not be out of their homes much to see what's happening, or when some houses do go dark for a few months because their occupants have headed south.
And, when someone is that age, and has an electric bill that high that's unpaid, they should also visit and find out if there is something they can do to reduce electric usage in that home. When I lived in Cincinnati, my elderly neighbor was having trouble with her gas bills on a fixed income. Turned out there was a program for senior citizens that came in and helped to make her house more energy efficient free of charge to her...added insulation into the walls and attic, weatherstripped around doors and windows, simple stuff, checked that her furnace was operating safely, etc. That was all she needed to get the bills back to an affordable level just by saving on consumption.
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Pax
Are We There Yet? Member
quod erat demonstrandum.
Posts: 5,103
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Post by Pax on Jan 27, 2009 9:23:30 GMT -5
I guess they found a way around that law... technically, they didn't "cut him off"...
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Post by cooter50 on Jan 27, 2009 21:54:23 GMT -5
I work at a private utility and yes there are laws at least in Missouri to prevent service cut-off in the dead of winter and heat of summer but once a cut or a limiter is placed say in september it is allowed to remain until that bill is caught up. The article does not say when his was installed but that high of a bill would've taken months to years to get so big.
Also, where are his relatives? He had to have someone, brother, sister, cousin, someone? If he was all alone and had nobody there are city/state social service agencies that are supposed to appeoach these individuals as their utility bills get so high, where were they? Once he got to a personal hazard level of inability to maintain his own life they should have been looking to make him a ward of the state to protect him.
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Post by crazielollie on Jan 28, 2009 3:27:03 GMT -5
Calluna,
This was an awful thing to have happen and it possibly could have been avoided. Still, I wonder if the power company should be held accountable for this. Did they even know he was still in the house? I'm not sure we should put it on power companies to research the present circumstance of every building they service. If they made any attempt at all to contact him and failed, they may have assumed the house was unoccupied simply because of his age on record if they had one especially if there was no response to the unpaid bills. What do you want them to do? There are programs to help the elderly but if they couldn't make contact with him there's a limit as to what the company could do. Usually here if the elderly, or the disabled have problems meeting their bills, people at the power company are helpful in finding programs they can use. Still, to do that, one has to have contact. I'd guess that since there aren't a lot more stories like this in that area the company is doing a competent job dealing with the problems of the elderly on low fixed incomes they service. People do "slip thru the cracks" even an efficient system. In that case, they are dependent on relatives, friends and neighbors to help or to get help for them. The further from home our help lines get, the less competent they are.
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Post by MacBeth on Jan 28, 2009 6:11:36 GMT -5
they may have assumed the house was unoccupied simply because of his age on record
Really? And this would be OK? What is the lowest age to make the assumption that the person at that address is probably already dead?
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Post by gr8designer on Jan 28, 2009 13:07:02 GMT -5
they may have assumed the house was unoccupied simply because of his age on record
They knew someone was in the house using electricity - that's why they put the limiter on it.
Also, where are his relatives? He had to have someone, brother, sister, cousin, someone?
Why? Not everyone does.
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Post by MacBeth on Jan 29, 2009 12:46:07 GMT -5
Freezing death of Mich. man in house sparks angerBy DAVID EGGERT, Associated Press Writer Wed Jan 28, 6:58 pm ET BAY CITY, Mich. – When neighbors went inside Marvin Schur's house, the windows were frosted over, icicles hung from a faucet, and the 93-year-old World War II veteran lay dead on the bedroom floor in a winter jacket over four layers of clothing. He froze to death — slowly and painfully, authorities say — days after the electric company installed a power-limiting device because of more than $1,000 in unpaid bills. The old man's sad end two weeks ago has led to outrage, soul-searching and a resolve never to let something like this happen again. "There's got to be a way in today's computer age they can find out if someone's over a certain age," said Chad Sepos, 37, a copy machine installer who lives a block away in this Lake Huron city of 34,000 people, about 90 miles from Detroit. "It's just sad." One of the saddest things of all was that Schur appeared to have plenty of money, and, in fact, one of the neighbors who entered the home reported seeing cash clipped to a pile of bills on the kitchen table. Schur's nephew suggested the old man's mind may have been slipping. Schur, or "Mutts," was a retired foundry worker who lived alone, his wife having died a couple of years ago. The couple had no children. He could often be seen through the big front window of his comfortably furnished home of 50 or 60 years, watching TV or keeping an eye on his neighborhood. On Jan. 13, a worker with the city-owned utility installed a "limiter" on Schur's electric meter after four months of unpaid bills. The device restricts power and blows like a fuse if usage rises past a set level. Electricity is not restored until the device is flipped back on by the homeowner, who must walk outside to the meter. Bay City Electric Light & Power did not contact Schur face-to-face to notify him of the device and explain how it works, instead following its usual policy by leaving a note on the door. But neighbors said Schur rarely, if ever, left the house in the cold. At some point, the device evidently tripped and was not reset, authorities said. Schur's home was heated by a gas furnace, not electricity, but some gas furnaces do not work properly if the power is out. Neighbors discovered Schur's body on Jan. 17 in his home, a yellow house with peeling paint. The outside temperature ranged from a high of 12 degrees to a low of minus 9 on Jan. 15, the day he was believed to have died. A heating pad was on his favorite armchair by the window. The oven door was open, perhaps to heat the place. "The body has a tremendous fighting power for survival. He died a slow, painful death," said Dr. Kanu Virani, who found frostbite on Schur's foot when performing the autopsy. Investigators are trying to establish how long he was without electricity. City officials are reviewing their procedures and in the meantime have suspended shutoffs and removed all limiters from homes after using the devices for 18 years. The medical examiner is looking into whether Schur suffered from dementia, particularly after police found enough cash lying around in the home to cover his bills. His nephew William Walworth said Schur told him two years ago he had $600,000 in savings. "It's definitely not a situation where money is an issue. The issue has to do with the mental faculties you have and your ability to make good decisions," said Walworth, 67, who lives in Ormond Beach, Fla. "I think the utility's policies are horrible and insane," he added. "For 50 years he paid the bill on a regular basis and never had problems. If people would know who their customers are and take concern for their customers, maybe they'd go knock on the door and see if everything is OK." Neighbors and others have posted messages on the Internet, complaining it was a shabby way to treat a veteran and demanding city employees be fired or prosecuted for not taking a few minutes to check on Schur, who was a medic in the South Pacific and earned a Purple Heart. One blogger noted that even a pet owner who leaves his dog outside to freeze can face charges. Sharon Gire, director of the Michigan Office of Services to the Aging, said Schur's death was preventable. "He was one of Michigan's most vulnerable citizens in need," she said. "It is a tragedy that he had to suffer such a painful death." Michigan's big, state-regulated utilities are not allowed to shut off power to senior citizens in the winter and must offer payment plans to the poor. State regulators also discourage the use of limiters. But Michigan's 41 smaller municipal utilities — Bay City's included — are not overseen by the state. Schur's death has prompted Michigan lawmakers to start writing legislation that could ban the use of limiters by municipal utilities. "The concern was particularly with elderly customers; they can be frail or confused," Public Service Commission spokeswoman Judy Palnau said. "Anything that can require some sort of mechanical intervention can be overwhelming." Bay City Manager Robert Belleman said that he was "deeply saddened" by Schur's death and that State Police will investigate. But he also said neighbors have a responsibility to each other. "I've said this before and some of my colleagues have said this: Neighbors need to keep an eye on neighbors," Belleman said. "When they think there's something wrong, they should contact the appropriate agency or city department." news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090128/ap_on_re_us/frozen_indoors
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Post by cooter50 on Jan 29, 2009 14:01:57 GMT -5
Someone has to pay the end bills if the utility cannot shut the power off then who will? Can you or I go to the gas station fill our tank then refuse to pay or do so and not be able to pay?
There are extremes here, in as much as he was 93 and died. I take care of my grandmother who is 100 and still kicking, she had become house bound over the last few years and could not stand to be away from home for more than a few moments as she feared it would be gone before she could get back, I presume the same for this man. My Grandmother got down with a infected foot and severe osteo arthritis she had to go to hospital for treatment then to a recovery center, she refused to accept rehab so they threw her out to us the family; she is now in a care home inIllinois where she is attended to at a cost of $2600 a month, we pay it as she has nothing.
This man had vet benefits, he had a home to sell, I am sure he had SS income and probably a pension, it is not sinful for he to have been placed or sent to a facility to care for him. The state did let him down but he let himself down that path as well.
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Post by Rob on Jan 29, 2009 19:13:49 GMT -5
Wow, Cooter. That was certainly compassionate.
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Post by crazielollie on Jan 30, 2009 2:31:55 GMT -5
Beth and gr8
No, they didn't need to know he was in the house. He could have been removed to a nursing home and in many cases in areas during cold weather, the heat would may have been kept on by whoever took charge of his accounts to keep the pipes from freezing and even timers on the lights to help prevent break-ins while he was in a hospital or nursing home. If he wasn't his "normal self", there's a good chance he might not have answered the door to a stranger and it's possible they weren't aware he was living there.
Again, if the power company wasn't doing something to help those they were aware of living in a house without friends or family, this story would not have been a "single outrage" but rather a series of deaths of elderly, weak or disabled people during cold weather in that area.'
When a death occurs that was "preventable", it's time to start pointing fingers. Actually, it comes down to whether or not we are "our neighbor's keeper". Companies provide services and unless their service is in the health industry or nursing homes, we usually don't expect them to be held responsible for knowledge of the health or mental state of their clients or consumers. It would be an extreme burden to insist they do. Taking care of those who are alone, no matter what the age, falls to those closest to them. If they accept the responsibility, life itself becomes more secure. If no one does, we end up with bodies in homes or apartments where they are found when sometimes the smell becomes more than the neighbors can ignore. It happens everyday in this country. There should have been more of a safeguard for this man than an impersonal power company. That there wasn't is sad but not unusual.
The neighbors and the newphew are deriding the power company. Did none of them notice that he wasn't "quite right" anymore? Still, they accept no responsibility themselves for his welfare. Good goin'.
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Post by crazielollie on Jan 30, 2009 2:32:49 GMT -5
Hey, maybe the nephew can sue the power company.
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Post by MacBeth on Jan 30, 2009 6:14:58 GMT -5
Hey, maybe the power company can do the human thing and check things out before they turn off power in the coldest part of the winter on any home.
What ever happened to ALL of us caring for one another?
He froze. Too bad. This seems to get the larger community (including the companies in that community) off the hook.
I say far too often these days - what is wrong with people?
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Calluna
Super Duper Member
I think there's someone on the other side...
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Post by Calluna on Jan 30, 2009 8:22:42 GMT -5
If the person at the power company keeps trying to shift the burden of responsibility to the neighbors (the neighbors did check, after he was already dead...how are they supposed to otherwise know something is wrong?), then why not consider the person who went out to put that limiter on the house to be a neighbor? That was a real person going out to the actual home, knowing there was a problem, so that person certainly could have made the effort to knock on the door and find out what the situation was before installing the device.
If the occupant HAD died prior to putting the limiter on, then again, if there was any suspicion of that, the electric company should have called the cops to investigate, not just turned the house into a meat locker.
The excuses I'm reading from the electric company just sound cold and callous...and like excuses. They sound like the sort of jerks who insist everything must be fine if you just go by the books, follow the policy, act like a robot rather than a person. After an incident like this, if they had any sort of heart, they would be recognizing that the policy is flawed and should be reevaluated to prevent something like this from happening again.
When someone starts accumulating unpaid bills for utilities, why not intervene sooner? Knock on the door and find out what's going on. Again, perhaps he was no longer fit to live alone and someone needed to make that decision. You can't rely upon neighbors to have all the information needed to determine something like that, but a utility that sees a long-standing, good customer suddenly stop paying bills is in more of a position to notice this is a new pattern.
And, if you put a device on someone's home that needs to be reset or in any way requires them to operate it, you need to make sure they understand how to work it. And, who knows, with such cold temperatures and so much snow lately, maybe he couldn't even get out to it to reset it.
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oskar
Are We There Yet? Member
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Post by oskar on Jan 30, 2009 8:54:24 GMT -5
Hey, he was 93 years old and wasn't paying his utility bill. Since he had become a burden for the utility company he was "disposable". Right, Cooter?
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Pax
Are We There Yet? Member
quod erat demonstrandum.
Posts: 5,103
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Post by Pax on Jan 30, 2009 9:41:38 GMT -5
I don't know what his resources were, or what his commitments were.
However, I will say this: Unless it can be proven that when he died he had every light in the house on, plus the TV, plus the blender, etc., then if nothing else the power company is liable for setting the limiter SO low that the man couldn't even draw enough power for MINIMAL life support -- which means they may as well have just cut him off, which they couldn't do by law, but the result was the same.
All I'm saying is, while we're making assumptions about what responsibility through negligence the old man had for his own death, we can make the same kinds of assumptions about the responsibility for negligence the company had in his death. I think it's reasonable to assume that there are two responsible parties in the death, as far as we can tell, and one of them has died, so there is only one responsible party left that can be held liable for damages.
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Post by cooter50 on Jan 31, 2009 9:08:57 GMT -5
Where was the 'nephew' during the time the old man was freezing? The AP indicated he had a nephew in macbeths post.
The limiter I know of installed by utilities is hung on the pole not the meter, the men that hang them are not social workers and are not required to contact in person as the utility generally has sent notices with each bill for a minimum of 90 days and a average of 120 days. I am certain this man had a phone, if not he did have neighbors that do and when the power went off he should have called the company to find out why; quite possibly he knew why and did not want the embarassment of doing so. He did have a nephew why not call him, call anyone he knew? If he was 'Not right' mentally why did his nephew leave him in the home? This is far from a singular "Evil Utility" event, it is a chain of unfortunate circumstances that left an old alone man to die.
Again, do we allow thosse with no money to take gas at the station? no. Do we allow those that have money to just take food from the grocer without paying? no. Homeless people of all ages sleep under overpasses and in parks many refusing care to take them somewhere warm, they too die but are largely ignored, do they have a 'Right' to have a heated place to sleep without cost? That is up to those that can coax them indoors.
I am far from non-compassionate, but I do live in a real world with real expenses and for a company that writes tens of thousands of dollars off anually due to those that cannot pay but continue to get service anyway. We do not refuse sevice to those indigent that cannot pay and have health or children with health issues, we do not cut power to those that are aged and living on limited incomes, we do ask they pay as they can when they can to offset the costs our company incurs to support them.
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Post by wayneinfl on Jan 31, 2009 10:26:45 GMT -5
"Hey, maybe the power company can do the human thing and check things out before they turn off power in the coldest part of the winter on any home."
I think it was pretty well established that the current limiter was put on the home before "the coldest part of the winter."
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oskar
Are We There Yet? Member
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Post by oskar on Jan 31, 2009 10:32:15 GMT -5
Where was the 'nephew' during the time the old man was freezing? The AP indicated he had a nephew in macbeths post.
Geez, Cooter, my mother will be 86 in a couple of months. I live 1,000 miles away and am an only child from that marriage. She's out and about so merely 'phoning to check up doesn't help. Any idea on how I should proceed?
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Post by cooter50 on Jan 31, 2009 12:02:57 GMT -5
My Grandmother lives 150 miles away from me, I call her or the home she is in every few days just to check in, before she got there and was still at home we had an agreement to call the other every two to three days and at least leave a message that we did call then the other called back as we could. When she did not call in a three day stretch or did not answer a return call fairly promptly either my wife or I would go to her home or call the neighbor to check on her.
She also had a "Life Alert" pendent and call equipment that Medicare paid for and we had installed, she could always press the panic button to summon help. If she did not respond to their daily check in they would call us and the police; happened twice as she was taking a bath at the 'wrong' time.
There are options, one does not have to sit alone and closed off from the world. I chose the above for my Grandma, her daughter(my mom) was her only child and she died 17 years ago, Grandpa has been gone since 1960. We (my brothers) are all that is left to her and we placed her in the best care home we could find for the money we have. She is 100 08/07/1908, she is alert and mentally competent but has gone blind and going deaf.
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Post by Peltigera on Jan 31, 2009 16:18:15 GMT -5
Someone has to pay the end bills if the utility cannot shut the power off then who will? Can you or I go to the gas station fill our tank then refuse to pay or do so and not be able to pay? not quite the same. if you do not have the money to pay for the petrol, you can walk or stay at home. If you cannot heat your home in winter, you freeze. that is profoundly different. The power company could have knocked on the door, looked in the window and asked the neighbours while their workers were there to fit the limiter. Here, they would need a court order first - and the court would be suggesting these things before giving the order. Bay City Electric Light & Power did not contact Schur face-to-face to notify him of the device and explain how it works, instead following its usual policy by leaving a note on the door.
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Post by crazielollie on Jan 31, 2009 16:30:03 GMT -5
(the neighbors did check, after he was already dead...how are they supposed to otherwise know something is wrong?),
OK, guess my life is just different, once again. We had an 80 year old and called her once a day. If there was no answer, someone walked on down to check. She may have died from a heart attack but she wouldn't have froze to death without us knowing. In extreme weather, we had more contact to make sure all was going well in her home. We often have power failures in this area that lasted from a few hours to a week or more. In a situation like that, often the neighbors are the only real source of help. Whether in the city or our here, this kind of involvement is a necessity. Many now also have life alerts which gives them a chance to make contact with a push of the button. That's a help too.
It takes real personal involvement to help someone in this position. There are more now than ever before with families being split up, often many miles away, due to job moves. Taking the elderly away from their home isn't always a good idea. If they're basically capable of staying where they are and that's what they want, there are solutions. If there are no responsible neighbors, then pay someone to call once a day and act if there is no answer who will also let you know if things start going sour and your relative is no longer doing well on their own. Many call everyday and make sure they have more than one contact to run in and check if they aren't able to establish contact. (Hmmm! Don't know of a company that does this. Might be worth looking into. Would make my life less busy a lot of times and it'd bring in an income too) Still, there are individuals who will and can usually be contacted thru a local church if nothing else.
It's also nice to keep an eye on elderly neighbors from the social standpoint. When they can no longer drive, they lose contact with a lot of things. Offer to drive them to a friend's house once in awhile. Talk to them. As their friends leave this world, invite them to family gatherings, Sunday dinners, etc. to help fill in the void. Life is busy, always but we make time for what we want. The rewards are much greater than the effort it takes. There is not a social division or a power company in a position to fill the needs of someone alone as well as the relatives, friends and the fellow next door. Sometimes it's little things and sometimes lifesaving.
If the relatives don't care enough to make sure there is a support group for those they have to leave behind, then there is none unless someone else steps in. It would have been wonderful if someone going out there would have taken the time and gotten involved in something that is not part of their job but certainly wouldn't count on it. It takes communication love and effort to make life better whether it's for the elderly, children or the family dog. That there wasn't one person who did is sad but to blame the situation on a power company is ludicrous. Companies are paid to fulfill their contracts with their clients. They did this. Lovely when we get more than we paid for but insisting they were in the wrong is nuts.
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Post by cooter50 on Jan 31, 2009 17:04:02 GMT -5
Well put cl
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Post by MacBeth on Feb 1, 2009 8:40:38 GMT -5
We are only really obligated to our blood relatives seems to be the bottom line. As long as we can say the company has no responsibility, it makes it easier to sat the community at large has no responsibility.
Let's hope that I am not without relatives, old and alone. I would then be responsible for my own death if I freeze to death and suffer from some dementia.
This is really the world you want? The world you accept?
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Post by crazielollie on Feb 1, 2009 12:33:17 GMT -5
How is that the "bottom line"? I don't do only for "relatives". Unfortunately, many don't even do for their own kin.
Life has gotten less personal. Think I've mentioned before that I don't donate to major charities. I do what many others do - we keep people from falling thru the cracks by sealing them. The government, companies, charities can only do so much. The bigger the help system, the more waste there is by those who know how to work the system. Sadly, many in need of help go without because they don't meet some petty rule. Their children are still hungry, they're living in cars but there is no help for them. Places like the Salvation Army fill in the cracks for some. Food pantries fill in some. Responsibility can be denied, as it is in this case, and find some corporation or government bureau that should have stepped in and didn't. He died this particular death because no one physically close to him was willing to take on the responsibility that comes with caring about him. This is the world he lived in. It only changes when neighbors are willing to accept responsibility. Do people do this? Yes, yes, yes. Unfortunately now, less and less. Seems neighbors are expecting the big "THEY" to handle everything. Well, "THEY" sometimes does a good job by accident but if one is looking for caring day to day involvement, it starts and ends with "I".
Actually, if I live to 93 and have no support group other than strangers who don't want to be close enough to be friends, I'd probably welcome death. The alternative would be a nursing home with no visitors - the government would pay and I could spend my days with the rest of the living dead. No thanks! I'd welcome the "grim reaper" in any form he chose to come before some "caring individual" called a social worker and sentenced me to that.
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Post by Peltigera on Feb 1, 2009 14:37:51 GMT -5
This is really the world you want? No. No. Am I my brother's keeper? Of course I am.
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Post by MacBeth on Feb 1, 2009 15:32:35 GMT -5
Yes, John, that is right....we are all the keeper of each other, whether we are acting as an individual, a community or a company. We do not stop being human beings once we take a paycheck.
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 1, 2009 23:39:44 GMT -5
I'm curious Beth. Where do you draw the line?
You feel the power company should hand out free power to 93 year old men. Does this apply to all the elderly? Then what of single mothers who can't afford power?
What about water? Should municipalities be able to cut off water from people who don't pay their bills? Who would pay their water bills?
What other businesses? Food is obviously essential for life. Should grocery stores give out free food?
What about transportation? Or clothing? Or medicine? There are a whole lot of businesses that would have to hand out free stuff.
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Post by MacBeth on Feb 2, 2009 6:08:09 GMT -5
I think that when you send someone out for a limiter on a home, you check inside or ask some authority to do so. In this case, they would have found an elderly, confused man with no one in his life who paid attention and was in need of help.
I draw the line on trying to help. No one should die this way when it was preventable.
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Post by MacBeth on Feb 2, 2009 6:09:01 GMT -5
And where do you draw the line, wayne? At what point are we not the stewards of one another? At what point is it OK to let people freeze to death?
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