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Post by MacBeth on Feb 5, 2009 11:45:38 GMT -5
Mich. to ban power limiters after man's deathBy DAVID EGGERT – 13 hours ago LANSING, Mich. (AP) — State regulators on Wednesday proposed emergency rules to keep more people from losing electricity or heat in the winter and to ban the use of power-limiting devices, weeks after a 93-year-old man froze to death in a home with a similar gadget. The Michigan Public Service Commission's new rules would allow unemployed workers and a larger number of lower-income customers to avoid utility shutoffs if they pay a small portion of their monthly bills. The rules also would extend shut-off protections for customers from March 31 to April 30. The commission, however, does not have jurisdiction over municipal utilities such as the one that put a power-limiting device on Marvin Schur's electric meter in Bay City because he owed more than $1,000. The device temporarily turns off power when use exceeds a certain level. Schur was found dead in his frigid home on Jan. 17, four days after the electricity "limiter" was installed. It apparently tripped, cutting off his electricity. Schur could have turned the power back on by resetting the outdoor device, but neighbors said he rarely left the house in the cold. The commission banned regulated utilities from using limiters, though none was using them at the time of Schur's death. The rules must be signed off on by Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who pushed for the ban, and be filed with the secretary of state. Meanwhile, the state of Iowa is considering expanding the use of limiters after rural electric cooperatives asked the state Utilities Board to update rules specifying the devices that can be used. Iowa has permitted the devices since the mid-1980s, said utilities board spokesman Chuck Seel, and the board has scheduled a hearing Thursday on allowing use of higher-tech versions. A change could cause other utilities to start using power limiters. Jerry McKim, chief of the Bureau of Energy Assistance in the Iowa Department of Human Rights, said he feared similar scenarios to that of Schur's if the state allows the newer limiters. "It's a pretty safe bet someone's going to die from this," he said. Iowa Association of Electric Cooperatives spokesman Allen Urlis said customers would not have to accept the devices, and they would reset automatically. "No one wants a repeat of something happening like it did in Michigan," Urlis said. It's unclear when the utilities board might decide. www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jWfXNyJfkN3J1S5Hxdra4nTXgdeAD9655Q6O0
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 5, 2009 13:58:49 GMT -5
Bay City Vet Who Froze Left Hospital a FortuneZlati Meyer Free Press Feb 05, 2009
A 93-year-old Bay City man who was about $1,000 in arrears on his electric bill when he froze to death in his home has left a fortune estimated at $600,000 to a hospital.
Marvin Schur, whose death shocked the nation last month, bequeathed all his money to Bay Regional Medical Center, attorney Cathy Reder said Wednesday, though she declined to confirm the amount. Schur's nephew William Walworth told CNN his uncle had saved more than $600,000, and Schur had cash attached to unpaid bills when he died.
The news came the day Michigan officials unveiled emergency rules to stave off more winter heat and electricity cutoffs.
However, the new Michigan Public Service Commission rules do not apply to municipal utilities like Bay City, which placed a limiter on the World War II veteran's electric meter that cuts the power after a certain predetermined usage. A note about the device was left on Schur's front door, but it is unclear whether he was aware of the device.
His frozen body was found Jan. 17 in his bedroom, dressed in a coat and multiple layers of clothing. There was ice in the kitchen sink and on the inside of the windows of the home when a neighbor discovered the body.
The discovery was made four days after Bay City Electric Light & Power placed the device restricting his electricity usage because he owed the utility more than $1,000. His phone service also had reportedly been cut off.
Gov. Jennifer Granholm said Tuesday that she wants to change state law so rules preventing heat and electricity cutoffs apply to municipal utilities as well.
"The irony of the whole thing is he was a medic in the Army saving lives," Walworth told the Free Press in a phone interview from his Florida home. "He led a nice life, except for his tragic ending. With his contribution to the hospital, he'll still be helping people save lives. He'll be doing it in death."
Neither Reder nor Walworth knew why Schur chose Bay Regional Medical Center.
Schur worked for a tool and die factory in the Bay City-Saginaw area, and was an ardent money-saver who was able to retire around age 52, Walworth said.
"He was a simple man; he was a very frugal man," the nephew said, pointing out that Schur learned to be thrifty because he grew up during the Great Depression. "To be honest, I don't think he ever went to any restaurants."
Walworth denied some media reports that his uncle had mental lapses: "If he had dementia, then he wouldn't have put on three layers of clothing, and he wouldn't have put on his oven to heat his house. Someone who has dementia would've just froze."
A hearing to determine a personal representative for Schur's estate is scheduled for March 17 in Bay County Probate Court, according to Reder.
Reder refused to discuss any potential civil suits against the Bay City utility or city officials, citing an ongoing investigation by Michigan State Police and the state Attorney General's Office.
"It depends on what the investigation concludes, whether or not there is anything there to be pursued. Time will tell whether there will be any further litigation on behalf of the estate," she said.
But Walworth is bitter about how his uncle died.
"I'm just appalled at the city, to turn off his utilities; it's unheard of around here," he said. "It was a horrific death."
Contact ZLATI MEYER at zmeyer@freepress.com. The Associated Press contributed to this report. http://veteransforcommons...cfm/Page/Article/ID/12273
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Pax
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quod erat demonstrandum.
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Post by Pax on Feb 5, 2009 14:15:37 GMT -5
Beth -- thanks for the article about Michigan banning limiters.
Finally, a solution -- not, "Oh! too bad."
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Post by cooter50 on Feb 5, 2009 20:19:10 GMT -5
The limiter got put on as the 'Old Man' did not pay his electricity bill to the tune of over a thousand dollars, yet he had $600,000 to leave to a hospital. Now I do not feel sorry for him in any sense unless he had Alzhiemers and could not make decisions, then I do blame the Nephew for leaving him unattended.
This is far from the Utilities fault, the man had the ability to pay just did not, that in itself is theft and this 'nephew' had to have known of it.
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Calluna
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Post by Calluna on Feb 5, 2009 20:30:28 GMT -5
The commission, however, does not have jurisdiction over municipal utilities such as the one that put a power-limiting device on Marvin Schur's electric meter in Bay City ... The commission banned regulated utilities from using limiters, though none was using them at the time of Schur's death. What does this mean? There are "unregulated" utilities exempt from following the rules everyone else has to follow? Sounds like a loophole that needs to be closed. I don't think the time period needed to be extended from the end of March to the end of April, but ALL utilities needed to comply with the same rules that prevent shutting off heat to customers in the dead of winter. I'm just not clear on why some are not "regulated" to have to follow those same rules? It's especially sad when it sounds like this guy really could afford the bill, and had money clipped to the bills to pay them, but perhaps was mentally incapacitated and didn't get so far as to put them in the mail. It might have taken no more than for someone to knock on his door and ask for payment before the power was turned off to get the payment. Still, I would rather my own utility bills were a bit higher to support the unpaid bills of those who can't afford them than to have people freezing to death in winter. It wouldn't hurt to wait a couple more months for spring to arrive before turning off the electric when he would have 6 months to start paying the bills or prepare for winter before cold weather arrived again.
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Calluna
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Post by Calluna on Feb 5, 2009 20:33:24 GMT -5
The limiter got put on as the 'Old Man' did not pay his electricity bill to the tune of over a thousand dollars, yet he had $600,000 to leave to a hospital. Now I do not feel sorry for him in any sense unless he had Alzhiemers and could not make decisions, then I do blame the Nephew for leaving him unattended. This is far from the Utilities fault, the man had the ability to pay just did not, that in itself is theft and this 'nephew' had to have known of it. The nephew lived in Florida, and this man lived in Michigan! Are you really so callous as to expect a distant relative in FL to keep tabs on someone in MI? That's pretty ridiculous! Not everyone is that close to their distant family, and often for good reason. Heck, I don't even keep that much track of my parents, let alone aunts and uncles.
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Post by crazielollie on Feb 6, 2009 2:19:57 GMT -5
Calluna,
I wouldn't have counted on his nephew either because of the distance alone. Still, it's sad that this fellow was so isolated that when the heat went out, he didn't feel he could call out to neighbors and tell them he was in trouble and ask them to help. Wonder if anyone would have checked on him even if everyone lost power. Keeping the heat on solves one problem, maybe - and it's not much of a problem compared to others that end with death in the elderly who are alone everyday. The other problems with the aged without caring neighbors are still there. Some starve to death, some take to their beds when they're sick and by the time anyone checks, they are either dead or nearly there. Caring and people willing to take some responsibility for elderly neighbors solves most of the problems. Making life better isn't up to "them" but rather to "us".
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Pax
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quod erat demonstrandum.
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Post by Pax on Feb 6, 2009 14:29:43 GMT -5
Naturally, if the guy had the money to pay, it's his own damned fault.
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 6, 2009 15:06:13 GMT -5
Gotta exculpate the power company at all costs. How sad.
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Pax
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quod erat demonstrandum.
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Post by Pax on Feb 6, 2009 18:08:07 GMT -5
As always, we don't *really* have all the facts. Much as we like to think we're judging this topic entirely on its merits, we don't have sufficient information to really do that. Instead, it's serving as fodder for "what-ifs." Which is all it really needs to do.
For me, the latest is: 1. If the guy can't pay, he still shouldn't freeze. 2. If he can pay, but doesn't, it's his own damned fault.
Otherwise, for those healthy people willing to live minimally, there's no reason to work at all, because they can count on the government to provide their minimum needs. I'm a liberal, but I'm not THAT liberal.
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Post by MacBeth on Feb 6, 2009 18:19:56 GMT -5
There is a 3rd option
For me, the latest is: 1. If the guy can't pay, he still shouldn't freeze. 2. If he can pay, but doesn't, it's his own damned fault. 3. If he can pay but does not due to illness, mental confusion or some other medical or psychological issue, he still shouldn't freeze
Just because he had money does not mean he was capable any longer of taking care of his affairs.
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Pax
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quod erat demonstrandum.
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Post by Pax on Feb 6, 2009 19:48:19 GMT -5
...and you're making another assumption, that he was teched in the head. ASSUMING that was true, then, well, let me relate this story. My wife had a friend, who had a sister. That sister had mental problems that were treatable with drugs. When she was on the drugs, she was fine, was able to work, maintain a home, etc. But she didn't like taking the drugs for some reason, I think they made her feel fuzzy or something. Anyway, she quit taking them. There used to be laws that would force people like this to take their drugs, or even institutionalize them, but actually, the liberal-leaning element in this country got the courts to agree that no one, except I suppose under extreme circumstances, could be held against their will in a mental hospital or for that matter even forced to take their drugs.
So -- she stopped taking her drugs, lost connection with reality, ended up homeless, and was found some time later under a bridge having frozen to death. She had a family, they didn't know where to find her.
Who was responsible for her freezing to death?
It's a tragedy but I can't help thinking -- she was. SHE chose to quit taking the drugs. If the government is responsible at all, it's only because they took from themselves the right to force people to take the drugs they need to live normal lives.
Of course, you could argue -- assume, sorry -- that this guy didn't even have that option, that he was loopy drugs or not, but if the government has no right to force him to take his drugs or be institutionalized, AND he has money, BUT he refuses to use it for his own benefit, I don't see a lot of good alternatives. I'm more than willing to listen to some. Bottom line, I think one could argue that it should be SOMEone's legal responsibility to take care of the wealthy mentally ill -- but I wouldn't agree it falls squarely on the shoulders of the electric company.
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Post by MacBeth on Feb 7, 2009 6:41:25 GMT -5
Not squarely, of course, but not absolved of all responsibility either. No one is - family, neighbors, possibly the mail person who may have seen mail piling up. My only point has been that we all share responsibility, and when we fail, we are all responsible for finding ways to do it better next time. If we absolve the company of any part in this and only blame the dead, it makes it easier for us as neighbors or family to feel ok when we don't take that extra step. And there is way too much of that going on these days for my taste
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 7, 2009 9:43:11 GMT -5
"If we absolve the company of any part in this and only blame the dead, it makes it easier for us as neighbors or family to feel ok when we don't take that extra step."
By the same token, if we lay all the blame on the power company or the government then it absolves the rest of us and "makes it easier for us as neighbors or family to feel ok when we don't take that extra step."
Another thing I wanted to comment on- the public service commissions actions are almost funny. They can't do anything to the power company that supposedly killed the old man, but they can impose regulations on companies that don't even use current limiters for non-payment- they prohibit them from doing something that they didn't do to begin with. And they're proud enough to put out a press release saying so. And there's probably someone out there reading this and thinking the problem is taken care of.
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Post by MacBeth on Feb 7, 2009 14:10:52 GMT -5
Or maybe shame that company into adopting the same policy.
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 14:25:06 GMT -5
They can't do anything to the power company that supposedly killed the old man,...
Where the heck did you get that from?
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 7, 2009 16:13:30 GMT -5
"Where the heck did you get that from?"
"The commission, however, does not have jurisdiction over municipal utilities such as the one that put a power-limiting device on Marvin Schur's electric meter..."
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 16:39:29 GMT -5
Another whoosh.
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 7, 2009 17:15:18 GMT -5
You seem to think I don't know how to catch. I think the problem might be that you don't know how to throw.
Let's test this. What did I miss? I'll mail a dollar (Canadian, if you wish) to anyone who understands what Oskar was trying to say and can explain it in simple terms. No help from Oskar.
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 17:23:27 GMT -5
Your statement:
They can't do anything to the power company that supposedly killed the old man,...
My question:
Where the heck did you get that from?
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 7, 2009 17:30:17 GMT -5
I told you. They (the public service commission) has no jurisdiction. They can't do anything. I suppose they can do something. But the powerless to DO anything they can say stuff, but so are we and you can see where that's going. Specifically where did I get that? The posts aren't numbered, so I don't know exactly what to tell you. It's in one of Beth's posts. www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti....TXgdeAD9655Q6O0
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 17:50:14 GMT -5
I'm wondering where you got the information that stated the power company that supposedly killed the old man from.
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 7, 2009 18:04:44 GMT -5
According to some sources, the power company is responsibe for the old man's death in a negligent act, killing him. The OP leans this way, Beth sure seems to feel this way, and the nephew has voiced that opinion as well.
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 18:09:34 GMT -5
To use your favourite tactic of parsing, Wayne, please point out where anybody specifically accused the power company of killing the old man.
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 7, 2009 18:18:57 GMT -5
You'd have to give me your definition of killing, I guess. No one claimed the power provider murdered him. Many have claimed that the power provider is "responsible." Or that the government is "responsible." They have claimed the actions were done in a wrongful manner. So that would be a wrongful death, at least in their eyes.
BTW, what does "parsing" mean?
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 18:29:20 GMT -5
The exact definition or the looser definition used on boards?
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 18:31:28 GMT -5
parse (pärs) v. parsed, pars·ing, pars·es v.tr. 1. To break (a sentence) down into its component parts of speech with an explanation of the form, function, and syntactical relationship of each part. 2. To describe (a word) by stating its part of speech, form, and syntactical relationships in a sentence. 3. a. To examine closely or subject to detailed analysis, especially by breaking up into components: "What are we missing by parsing the behavior of chimpanzees into the conventional categories recognized largely from our own behavior?" Stephen Jay Gould. b. To make sense of; comprehend: I simply couldn't parse what you just said. 4. Computer Science To analyze or separate (input, for example) into more easily processed components. v.intr. To admit of being parsed: sentences that do not parse easily.
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 18:32:07 GMT -5
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Post by wayneinfl on Feb 7, 2009 18:37:14 GMT -5
Oh, no... that's not me at all...
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oskar
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Post by oskar on Feb 7, 2009 18:40:08 GMT -5
Really? Check your comments in the Foreign Doctors thread and think it over.
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